Fate of the Norns

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 Post subject: confused by zealots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:21 am
Posts: 24
Hi

I'm new to the game, and still learning the rules. I'm creating low level dwellers and making them fight low level denizens from Fafnir's Treasure (2014pdf) since they're already generated.

So I've just fought a couple of zealots (p76) and have some questions as a result:

1. Under Generic actions/Attack action the club does 4 damage and the crossbow 3. But under Items and equipment the club does +3 damage and the crossbow +2. Where is the extra point of damage coming from? (this seems like a misunderstanding on my part of something totally fundamental to the game)

2. According to Generic actions/Attack action the zealot must play a physical rune to use a weapon of equal size or larger. But the weapons are size 5, i.e. one size greater than the zealot, and I'm assuming they're two handed. The crossbow definitely is. So can't they play any rune? ("Any rune can be used to wield a two-handed weapon up to one size greater than the dweller. A Physical rune must be played to wield a two-handed weapon that is 2 sizes larger than the dweller.")

3. Why would a zealot use a generic attack action with a physical or mental rune since it can use its active powers instead with those runes (Lunging Attack and Backstab Attack), and add metas too?

Thanks very much
Hamish


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 Post subject: Re: confused by zealots
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:45 pm 
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So, be aware, Fafnir's is a slightly altered version for easier play. That having been said...

1) the extra point of damage comes from size. Size 4 guys (humans) default to 1 point of damage. The weapons are an adder.

2) since it is bigger, it's two handed. By the main book rules, he can use that club with any rune two handed. Fafnir's alters it a little for simplicity, and doesn't assume you have the main book. In either event, one physical rune would be enough to generic Attack with either weapon.

3) well, if he has nowhere to lunge too, or if he's not behind them, say. But yea, that's generally the idea. :)


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 Post subject: Re: confused by zealots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:41 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:21 am
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Thanks for the help!

I knew I was missing something r.e. the damage from size. I've now found the rule in the main rulebook but can't see it anywhere in Fafnir's.

It's still confusing though because looking at the pregenerated dwellers, the attack actions of Turbog, Vanadis, Fjori and Sigyn don;t add that size bonus. I notice that Muggers and Trolls don't add the size bonus either. I wonder if size bonus was meant to be left out of Fafnir's altogether, but slipped back in for some of the denizens?

Fafnir's rules for two handed weapons are the same as the main book, that quote I quoted was from Fafnir's on p43 under Weapons:

Quote:
To use a weapon that is the same size as the dweller, a Physical rune must be played. Any rune can be used to wield a two-handed weapon up to one size greater than the dweller. A Physical rune must be played to wield a two-handed weapon that is 2 sizes larger than the dweller.


So its weird that it then changes in the denizen descriptions. Maybe it's for dwellers only, and the simple denizen version is for Norn convenience, like how the denizens don't have Void runes either?

Backstab and lunge make a lot more sense now, thanks very much! e.g. for lunge you'd have to move at least 1 hex to build up the momentum before the weapon metas would come into play.

Thanks again for your help.
Hamish


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 Post subject: Re: confused by zealots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:31 am 
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Moosh you found a typo on page 76. "hand-to-hand and natural attacks" determine their base damage from size. Melee and ranged attacks using weapons do not get a the size based damage as a bonus. I have seen players interpret this as a size bonus rather than base damage. Andrew answered elsewhere on the forum that he tried to avoid "base" vs "bonus" concepts, but that led to unintended confusion for players who are used to those concepts.

moosh wrote:
1. Under Generic actions/Attack action the club does 4 damage and the crossbow 3. But under Items and equipment the club does +3 damage and the crossbow +2. Where is the extra point of damage coming from? (this seems like a misunderstanding on my part of something totally fundamental to the game)


I was on the beta playtest for Fafnir and I'm sure I remember one version of Zealot having Might as a passive. It could be that Might was removed, but the text at the end wasn't changed. For the zealot attack-defend summary, remove the extra point of damage, it's incorrect.

moosh wrote:
2. According to Generic actions/Attack action the zealot must play a physical rune to use a weapon of equal size or larger. But the weapons are size 5, i.e. one size greater than the zealot, and I'm assuming they're two handed. The crossbow definitely is. So can't they play any rune? ("Any rune can be used to wield a two-handed weapon up to one size greater than the dweller. A Physical rune must be played to wield a two-handed weapon that is 2 sizes larger than the dweller.")
raleel wrote:
2) since it is bigger, it's two handed. By the main book rules, he can use that club with any rune two handed. Fafnir's alters it a little for simplicity, and doesn't assume you have the main book. In either event, one physical rune would be enough to generic Attack with either weapon.



Raleel is right here. Fafnir took some liberties to simplify the overall fiddly bits of the rules. The zealot could use any runes here to attack since they can use the weapons 2 handed. I'll post in the FT errata thread after this post.

moosh wrote:
3. Why would a zealot use a generic attack action with a physical or mental rune since it can use its active powers instead with those runes (Lunging Attack and Backstab Attack), and add metas too?


Well if you draw 2 green runes and you really want to attack, you can! :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: confused by zealots
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:08 am 
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Thanks heaps theRajjj!


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