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Figuring out the combat calculations
https://www.fateofthenorns.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=800
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Author:  jstomel [ Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Figuring out the combat calculations

I have been going through the books and concluded that there are some things that I just don't understand.
1) How is DF, Parry, Pierce calculated? Do you just add up all the bonuses on everything you are wielding? That means that a shortsword does the same amount of damage as a punch, which doesn't make any sense. Does that mean that you add weapon DF to your natural size based damage? If you add up the DFs when wielding two swords, does that mean that someone fighting with a free off hand can add their unarmed damage to their final DF? If you have Fangs and are wielding a short sword do you unarmed DF, sword DF or both? If you have a ranged weapon in one hand and a sword in the other do you choose one or the other or still add them together?
2) I don't understand where Solblindi's parry value comes from on page 419 of DotN
3) Do spells have any sort of natural reach or range? If not, then magic is pretty weak since quite a few spells don't have a range meta and any spell can be interrupted by playing any rune if you are adjacent.
4)On page 343 of the core rulebook, hunting dogs have a size 3 but do DF+2 physical. I don't see any passives that raise unarmed DF, shouldn't their DF be (size-3, min 1)?
5) Does the Maiden of Ratatosk's Dance of Spring ability only apply to generic attack actions? It seems pretty useless in any case since its bonus DF will be 0 for most starting characters and never more than 2
6) What the heck does rune magic mean when it says that the same rune can cancer each other out? Does that mean the rune you have bound to the ability or the ability itself? Does the person canceling the rune need to know rune magic or can they just play the rune from in hand? Does a maintained rune in play count? If a Galdr give his runic inscribed weapon to a thrall and tells them to sneak up on someone else with runes, do they still cancel?
7)DotN says dwellers can't stack passives more than once. Why does the Galdr have like 6 summon effigies on their passive board, then?
8) If you are knocked back, does the attacker decide which hex you are knocked into or does the defender?

Thanks to anyone who can help me out with this!

Author:  andrew [ Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figuring out the combat calculations

jstomel wrote:
I have been going through the books and concluded that there are some things that I just don't understand.
1) How is DF, Parry, Pierce calculated? Do you just add up all the bonuses on everything you are wielding? That means that a shortsword does the same amount of damage as a punch, which doesn't make any sense. Does that mean that you add weapon DF to your natural size based damage? If you add up the DFs when wielding two swords, does that mean that someone fighting with a free off hand can add their unarmed damage to their final DF? If you have Fangs and are wielding a short sword do you unarmed DF, sword DF or both? If you have a ranged weapon in one hand and a sword in the other do you choose one or the other or still add them together?


You will be summing up any and all applicable damage that you can deal from your body/equipped items. Remember that there are 4 equip slots (natural or otherwise) that you can use. Some powers specifically say that you meet a requirement to get the bonus, so you need to respect those (ie. unencumbered dodger). The RGS system is about being numbers light (most everything is single-digits), so less is better, and whatever you choose to include, just stay consistent between attacks and defense as well as what dwellers add vs what denizens add.

jstomel wrote:
2) I don't understand where Solblindi's parry value comes from on page 419 of DotN


Yeah sorry, the parry value should be 0. I have that typo memorized because we run those pregens at conventions and I have that value sharpied out. I just checked the errata thread and its in the thread but not in the top post. I will update that after this reply.

jstomel wrote:
3) Do spells have any sort of natural reach or range? If not, then magic is pretty weak since quite a few spells don't have a range meta and any spell can be interrupted by playing any rune if you are adjacent.


Unless explicitly in the description, all effects are self or adjacent in range. Casters need to use late initiative to their advantage and do some planning, in exchange they get the school of magic bonus (Seith, Verwandlung, Runes, Songs, etc)

jstomel wrote:
4)On page 343 of the core rulebook, hunting dogs have a size 3 but do DF+2 physical. I don't see any passives that raise unarmed DF, shouldn't their DF be (size-3, min 1)?


That would come from "base powers" which are omitted for brevity (see creature writeups), but it's clear that you've got a pretty solid handle on the powers and the numbers derived from them from this and other questions. You'll be ok running or playing the game! ;)

jstomel wrote:
5) Does the Maiden of Ratatosk's Dance of Spring ability only apply to generic attack actions? It seems pretty useless in any case since its bonus DF will be 0 for most starting characters and never more than 2


No, it works with Active powers that have "attack action" as part of the effect/description. Also remember that multi-classing at Disir level 1+ will grant you access to more Perform ranks (as will magic items with infusions).

jstomel wrote:
6) What the heck does rune magic mean when it says that the same rune can cancer each other out? Does that mean the rune you have bound to the ability or the ability itself? Does the person canceling the rune need to know rune magic or can they just play the rune from in hand? Does a maintained rune in play count? If a Galdr give his runic inscribed weapon to a thrall and tells them to sneak up on someone else with runes, do they still cancel?


It applies to Passive powers that are {rune} type. This self-limits mass production of rune-inscribed magical items as well as Rune Casters working in concert. It's part of the mythos of the world and one of the peculiarities of Rune magic. To be absolutely clear, it doesn't affect Active powers, even if maintained.

jstomel wrote:
7)DotN says dwellers can't stack passives more than once. Why does the Galdr have like 6 summon effigies on their passive board, then?


Are you referring to page 348? Keen Aptitude? If so, it's about how Keen Aptitude works rather than Passive powers. It also extends to infusions.

jstomel wrote:
8) If you are knocked back, does the attacker decide which hex you are knocked into or does the defender?
Thanks to anyone who can help me out with this!


Yes


JStomel, I think you have a really good handle on this due to the pointed questions asked. It's clear that you read the first 2 books in great detail. My advice is: don't overthink it. It's an RPG, and the rules are the scaffolding to a great adventure. The runes and the playmat are a fun resource management game within the game. Use what you know, if something's unclear, make a call and keep playing with the rules as called, and come back here with further questions you may have. Have fun!

Author:  jstomel [ Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figuring out the combat calculations

Thanks for helping me. The thing I am still unclear on is if an unarmed off hand adds to DF and if Fangs (the passive) and other abilities that give natural weapons give their bonuses to someone who is dual wielding. Obviously claws would not apply to someone who is wielding a weapon in their clawed hand, but maybe claws on the feet would? Basically, I've got a level 9 Ulfgardr in the party wielding a short sword, nothing in the off hand, and Fangs. If she does a generic attack action should her DF be 1 ( for the short sword) or 4 (short sword + off hand + 2 for fangs)? This makes a pretty big difference if she uses and ability and amplifies it twice (3 vs 12 damage).

Author:  andrew [ Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Figuring out the combat calculations

First let's address Amplify, it's a linear multiplier: x2, x3, x4 for 2, 3 and 4 Amplify meta tags respectively.
So 2 Amps is x3 damage.

Let's clear up the unarmed attack damage based on size as well: Your unarmed attack action deals DF 1 if you're size 4, it's not per hand. So wielding 2 short swords, you have DF 2.

I would allow fangs for the generic attacks if you're performing an unarmed attack, since bonuses do not stack by hand or by weapon, but rather by the attack action itself. So for example when you have Martial Prowess (passive power) it adds +1 to the attack if you're wielding a weapon, not by the amount of weapons that you have equipped.

So you options are:
1) Perform a weapon attack: Wield 2 short swords for DF 2 (double amp to 6 damage)
2) Perform an unarmed attack: Base DF 1 + 2 from Fangs for a total DF of 3 (double amp to 9 damage)

Makes sense?

Author:  jstomel [ Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figuring out the combat calculations

Ok, so unarmed damage and armed damage never mix with each other and Fangs only boosts unarmed damage? On an unrelated note, the snow serpent is listed as size 4, but the art and description indicate that it is much larger and I don't see any size increasing passives, advice?

Author:  andrew [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Figuring out the combat calculations

this has already been errata'ed
http://www.fateofthenorns.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=170

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