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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:17 am 
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Some active powers speak of "a flurry of blows" the user unleashes on their enemies, but the actual technical description later only mentions "an Attack action". Generally speaking, can you use Active Powers that require you to attack an opponent always with ranged Weapons (such as a bow) unless the description specifically speaks of a melee attack? Or are all active powers referring to attack actions meant to be used with melee attacks only unless specifically stated?

Secondly, does the damage dealt by the Aura condition also affect the person afflicted by the Aura condition, or just everybody around her? (And if the person under Aura is protected from the damaging effects, how in Thor's name is "Beckon Yggdrasil" balanced? You cast it, let your fastest Dweller run through the four hexes and then have him run towards the enemy with Shroud 4 AND Aura 4, dealing massive damage just by getting close to them while they have to spend HALF their runes to target him with anything!)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Minor nitpicks about Aura/Shroud:
@Aura:
Aura's deal damage during upkeep, so the enemy should disengage before getting hit by the effect, if a dweller charges in and just stands there. If they do, the dweller has to move up close again next round, so he's losing at least one action for movement per round, too. In total, spending runes for movement should balance out in the long term, unless someone got superior movement actions or is surrounded by alot of enemies (as each of the enemies needs to move out of Aura reach each round). So in 1v1-melee-situations Aura is mostly useless, it shines in 1vX-melee, where it enables some heroic battles.
Nonetheless Beckon Yggdrasil seems to be one of the best actions to grab for a Maiden of Ratatosk, as it enables her to control the flow of battle/movement of opponents like no other skill.
Unlike e.g. Beckon Jotunheim (easily Degeneration +3 or +4 on 4 enemies if focused) you can avoid the dmg more easily though, so I would say Beckon Yggdrasil is not even the most powerful of the Beckons...


@Shroud:
Just the first enemy to target your dweller with Shroud 4 loses half his Runes (=1-2 mostly) - after that, Shroud drops to 3. Subsequently targets would lose 1 runes and decrease shroud further. It is a great effect if used in the way you describe it, as spending 2-3 runes (Casting it, moving through the effect) nets you ~4-5 runes lost from your opponents, but in general Ranged/Caster dwellers profit more from shroud, as they got the chance to get the "free" stack during upkeep.


I hope this helps cleaning up any misconceptions about "just running in and dealing massive damage while everybody spends half their runes just to do anything".


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Talaris wrote:
Minor nitpicks about Aura/Shroud:
@Aura:
Aura's deal damage during upkeep, so the enemy should disengage before getting hit by the effect, if a dweller charges in and just stands there. If they do, the dweller has to move up close again next round, so he's losing at least one action for movement per round, too. In total, spending runes for movement should balance out in the long term, unless someone got superior movement actions or is surrounded by alot of enemies (as each of the enemies needs to move out of Aura reach each round). So in 1v1-melee-situations Aura is mostly useless, it shines in 1vX-melee, where it enables some heroic battles.
Nonetheless Beckon Yggdrasil seems to be one of the best actions to grab for a Maiden of Ratatosk, as it enables her to control the flow of battle/movement of opponents like no other skill.

Absolutely. With a Maiden of Ratatosk, it's easy being always the last in initiative order, which allows you to move AFTER everybody else and FASTER, so you will be able to move into range, and Upkeep happens before anyone can move. Our group has a Galdr and a MoR, which is why I think the Beckon Yggdrasil power is too fricking awesome. I mean, half the Denizen's level of damage, not reducable in any way?! Area effect? And, again, you lose tons of runes just trying to attack the recipient due to Shroud... oh, and of course, she can attack you and steal even MORE of your runes...
Quote:
Unlike e.g. Beckon Jotunheim (easily Degeneration +3 or +4 on 4 enemies if focused) you can avoid the dmg more easily though, so I would say Beckon Yggdrasil is not even the most powerful of the Beckons...

Beckon Jotunheim is known as "Backfire Jotunheim" where I come from. Too many times have those who cast it been pushed into it themselves...
@Shroud:
Quote:
Just the first enemy to target your dweller with Shroud 4 loses half his Runes (=1-2 mostly) - after that, Shroud drops to 3. Subsequently targets would lose 1 runes and decrease shroud further. It is a great effect if used in the way you describe it, as spending 2-3 runes (Casting it, moving through the effect) nets you ~4-5 runes lost from your opponents, but in general Ranged/Caster dwellers profit more from shroud, as they got the chance to get the "free" stack during upkeep.

Okay, say you have starting characters facing Lv9 or 10 enemies. Each of these will have either 2 or 3 Essence.

First guy loses 2 runes and has a maximum 1 left to attack the recipient. (After which he won't be able to run away and stand inside the Aura 4...) Second guy loses 1 rune and MAY have 2 left - which is one to attack and one to move away, or a 2 Rune Chain and no movement. Same to the third and fourth guy. If the one Shrouded is a half-decent tank (say, again, your Maiden of Ratatosk), all those teeny-weenie attacks won't do much against her natural resilience to getting hit, and she can even defend as much as she likes as her Aura 4 will deal more damage than she could do herself anyway. Oh - and as we're talking Maiden of Ratatosk - with a litle Taunt, her opponents aren't going to attack anybody but her. Bummer.

Quote:
I hope this helps cleaning up any misconceptions about "just running in and dealing massive damage while everybody spends half their runes just to do anything".

It's still way too easily abused, IMO.

Any idea on my question about Ranged weapons and Active Powers?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:45 am 
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Taleweaver wrote:
Some active powers speak of "a flurry of blows" the user unleashes on their enemies, but the actual technical description later only mentions "an Attack action". Generally speaking, can you use Active Powers that require you to attack an opponent always with ranged Weapons (such as a bow) unless the description specifically speaks of a melee attack? Or are all active powers referring to attack actions meant to be used with melee attacks only unless specifically stated?


By default all active powers are good with range and reach weapons. Some that are specific to one or the other are quite explicit about the requirements (see page 230)

Taleweaver wrote:
Secondly, does the damage dealt by the Aura condition also affect the person afflicted by the Aura condition, or just everybody around her?


The one affected by Aura is immune to the damage generated by it.

And Talaris, you are quite right, all Maidens should beg every Galdr to get that power for them!

LOL Backfire Jotunheim :)

Remember that all tactics can be mirrored by both Norn and players *evil grin* I am a player, but we enjoy getting our Norn's jaw to drop, and he enjoys doing the same to us with new an evil builds.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:58 am 
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Alright, then thanks for your answers.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:55 pm 
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bethroth wrote:
And Talaris, you are quite right, all Maidens should beg every Galdr to get that power for them!

Beckon Yggdrasil is an ability of MoR, no need to beg anybody ! :twisted: ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:26 am 
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It's a possible Ginnungagap skill for Galdr, meaning they won't have to rely on the luck of the draw to actually cast it.


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