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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:25 am 
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On p. 108:

Quote:
MAINTAIN
During the Clean-Up phase of a turn (see page 96), a rune chain is usually removed from the In-Play pile,
unless it has a Maintain meta tag that allows it to stay in effect past the end of the round (similar to a Passive
power that is always in effect). No more runes can then be added to the rune chain. Any Maintained damage
or healing effects are triggered during the combatant’s Upkeep phase
. If the rune-chain takes damage and loses
the Maintain meta tag, then at the end of that turn, the rune chain is dispelled during the Clean-Up phase.
A Maintained rune chain can be cancelled at any time by sending all the runes from the chain back into Essence.

Example: The Grasping Earth Active power states: “Touch to deal +2 Physical Damage and hinder victim’s
movement by -2.” If it is Maintained, the movement penalty will apply at all times and the victim will take damage
during the Grasping Power caster’s Action phase every turn while it has the Maintain meta in the rune chain.

[emphasis added]

In the rule description it says the damage and healing takes place during the "Upkeep phase," but in the example it seems to suggest damage and healing takes place in the character's "Action phase."

Is one of these in error? Or am I missing something?


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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:23 am 
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Someone asked this earlier here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=403&hilit=grasping

andrew wrote:
Let me elaborate. Effects are both "bust" and "sticky". They burst when cast and during Upkeep. Anyone in the AoE during the burst is affected. The effect isn't continuous so you don't need to check the AoE continuously when someone may pass through it (simplified for combat speed). The effect is sticky so you don't need to check effect area if the caster moves or the recipient moves (again for speed).


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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:08 am 
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First, thank you for that thread. I'm going to print it out. I think it will be useful as I make this final pass to really get a handle on the rules in the book.

Second, I don't think the sentence you quoted addresses the point of my actual confusion. (My question was about when damage is applied from an Open or Maintain Meta, not where it is applied.) But it did make me (maybe!) understand the point tangentially, and it answered a question I would end up having about area of effect spells!

If I'm understanding the rule now, I think this is what is going on...

When someone ends the Clean Up phase with an Open or Maintain Meta, that chain's powers will be "triggered" in the Upkeep Phase. This doesn't mean the effects are applied in that moment... simply that they are "on." Through the rest of the turn (or until the chain is still In Play) effects will be applied as appropriate, whenever they could apply. So if a target of Grasping Earth tries to move, even if the PC who cast it hasn't had his turn yet, then the movement penalty will apply. And when the PC's turn comes around the damage from the chain will apply against the target... because that is when the damage would normally apply against a target.

So the damage is not applied in the Upkeep phase, but all effects are "waiting" to be applied as approbate starting at the Upkeep phase.


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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:43 am 
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If a power that deals damage or heals is Maintained, it first does damage/healing to any/all targets that are applicable for the power and then during the Upkeep of subsequent rounds, it ALSO deals that damage/healing to the original targets.


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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:18 am 
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So Open and Maintained chains activate/deal damage/heal twice a turn?

Because the rules say during the Upkeep phase, and the example says during the Action phase of the character with the chain...

So I'm still confused.


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PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Not twice a turn. On the FIRST turn, it deals damage during the Action Phase. After that, during the Upkeep Phase.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 1:41 pm 
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Quote:
If it is Maintained, the movement penalty will apply at all times and the victim will take damage
during the Grasping Power caster’s Action phase every turn while it has the Maintain meta in the rune chain.


This is the root of the problem, a poorly worded sentence. My clarification below should make it into the next errata since I've been meaning to clean this section up.

Let me clarify the whole process in ordered steps:
1) During your action phase, you cast a rune chain which includes both an area meta and a maintain meta. Let's assume the rune chain grants a damage buff. The damage buff is immediately granted to everyone in the applicable area.
2) For the remainder of the round, the effect is sticky, and even if the combatants move out of the area of effect, they retain that buff (until end of round).
3) End of round, damage buff is removed from anyone who was affected
4) The next combat round during upkeep, the maintained rune chain resolves once more, this time it grants the buff to anyone in the area. After movement the targets of the spell may have changed, so a brand new set of combatants get this buff until end of round.
5) Assume during this round the dweller who cast the rune chain dismisses it. The effect still remains sticky on those combatants until end of round.


Does that help?

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 5:48 pm 
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Now, what if it's Maintained with a Range Meta, Andrew?

Seithkona hits a target with Bone Snapper within Range and Maintains it.

How is that resolved? Do they get to choose a new target the next round or would that same target be hit during Upkeep?


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 10:22 pm 
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As written/intended/designed, it gets a recast during upkeep so you can pick a new target and the original one may be out of range.

however

Dirty little secret, despite taking years to design and balance the game, I also am fast and loose with the ruling at my game table. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 9:20 pm 
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andrew wrote:
As written/intended/designed, it gets a recast during upkeep so you can pick a new target and the original one may be out of range.

however

Dirty little secret, despite taking years to design and balance the game, I also am fast and loose with the ruling at my game table. ;)



Oh yeah, we sat together alot as well, houseruling alot of maintained stuff to make it work like we imagined it instead of going painstakingly accurate with the RAW and deciding for 1 interpretation.
E.g. The aforementioned Bonesnapper was rather a "stick to the target and snaps his bones in subsequent rounds as well", as that made most practical sense for us (if one can speak of sense when regarding mystical effects, heh).
Or a maintained Armor up spell form the Gadr worked that way - easier to imagine that the Galdrs rune-enchanted armor is encrusted with Earth spirits as long as he maintains the spell than them changing targets each round.

OTOH, almost all maintained Skaldr songs were deemed to behave like Zones around the Skaldr singing: Affecting everyone every round around him when maintained, thus basically encouraging the team to stick close "to the bard" to get their "buffs" and encouraging the Skaldr to use some Friend/Foe meta to ensure he wont buff unfriendly dwellers as well.


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