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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:37 am 
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Abate. More fun today.

Spiritual Abortion is cast at a target. Spell has Range and Amplify added to it. The Target has a Shield with the passive "Cloak of Protection" (same guy as the Death Charge) . Target does a defend action (Which in effect does nothing itself) other than allowing the passive on the shield to be triggered for a minor sacrifice of the Abate Meta added to the defend action.

As the spell had already reached the target we rules Range could not be changed, so the amplify was removed causing just the damage and possession to be reduced.

Concerns here

1/ The spell has already been cast. So can an abate actually cause changes to the rune chain, this is not interrupting an attack.

2/ If it can then Cloak of Protection seems very powerful for a very minimal cost.

Also does Amplify increase Range, or does only range increase range?

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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:52 am 
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IIRC, only Range increases range.

I don't know that I would disallow Range, actually. it's an {Interrupt}. He sees it incoming, puts his Defend up, and Abates it.

I think (IMO here) that {Interrupt} is interrupting the effect, not the performance of the action. Think about a Defend, which is an {Interrupt}. It interrupts the damage, but not the performance of the attack.


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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:56 am 
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It Makes Abate very very powerful at lower levels where one Abate pretty much wrecks anything

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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:58 am 
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Yes, that makes an excellent point on it. I find a similar power level in Taunt and Shroud. Removing a rune from being used in an action at low Destiny levels is quite strong.


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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:51 pm 
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raleel wrote:
IIRC, only Range increases range.
I think (IMO here) that {Interrupt} is interrupting the effect, not the performance of the action. Think about a Defend, which is an {Interrupt}. It interrupts the damage, but not the performance of the attack.


That's another point which came up today - we weren't sure whether the generic defend action constitutes a valid {Interrupt} chain for the abate to attach to.


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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:38 pm 
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Quote:
I think (IMO here) that {Interrupt} is interrupting the effect, not the performance of the action. Think about a Defend, which is an {Interrupt}. It interrupts the damage, but not the performance of the attack.


Right so Abate should not impact anything that stops the attack reaching the target. It should impact only the effect of the attack Damage and Conditions

So Perhaps Abate should be updated to identify Metas it can not impact : such as Range / Area / Etc.

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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:59 pm 
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We are actually playing the Abate as knocking out the last rune in the chain (right-most rune). If it changes the allowable targets so be it. It is holding up in our group, but I'm curious to hear more examples of play where it was wonky/hard-to-resolve.

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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:40 pm 
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khunkwai wrote:
Quote:
I think (IMO here) that {Interrupt} is interrupting the effect, not the performance of the action. Think about a Defend, which is an {Interrupt}. It interrupts the damage, but not the performance of the attack.


Right so Abate should not impact anything that stops the attack reaching the target. It should impact only the effect of the attack Damage and Conditions

So Perhaps Abate should be updated to identify Metas it can not impact : such as Range / Area / Etc.


I actually disagree with that. I really don't have any issue with it hitting Range or Area and invalidating targets. I would view it (in the Range example, say) as putting a wider force field shell and slowing the missile. I would get pretty highly narrative at this point, I imagine, but I'm ok with that myself.

However, I do like the idea of it not being a free for all on which rune gets hit, because it makes Abate very strong, as you say. I don't like "I'm Abating and targeting specific runes". I like the idea of the "right most rune". It puts the onus for the Abate-resistance on the attacker to construct his rune chain well. It will probably make Range and Maintain be the first in the chain (you want some effect, and are willing to sacrifice something like an Amplify).

Interesting side effect, laying an Open allows your buddies to protect your chain from Abates (though I can't think of a situation where it would work like this in practice off the top of my head). Same with Cannibalize


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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 5:44 pm 
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Re: the cloak

It says "Effect: Perform a Minor Sacrifice +1 to add one free Abate meta to a Defend action you are performing." as of 4-23-2016 beta.

So, it works on a Generic Defend, by definition.

I feel like the COST might be a little light, but I think it in and of itself should be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: LotA Beta Updates
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:16 pm 
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Yea i think right most rune getting abated resolves any issues and takes the power level down a bit.

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