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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:22 am 
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1. What counts as unused QR. Meaning if I craft a weapon with realm ore's does the QR bonus provided at the end represent the potential of the weapon to hold magic or does it represent the fact that the item is rarer and harder to sunder/damage in addition to increasing its skatt value. Same for Dvergar Engineering however I feel like that is obviously not the case in that instance. "What constitutes used and unused QR vis a vis QR addition's"

2. Infused Strike + Invoker's charity? I know that Infused Strike specifically deny's meta's and I read on the forum that that was strict and intentional but I was wondering if the blacksmith with the archtype all about weapon power activation with a passive that add's meta's when activating infused items would trigger in this instance because it is VERY SPECIFIC and just feels like they would synergize?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:00 pm 
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1) I would say no on the realm ores. Largely because the rare materials themselves give properties. Using these doesn't increase the difficulty to craft either, so I think I would view it as a byproduct, and that the final QR rating factors in the abilities gained from the ore itself

AFAIK, all Dvergar engineering things cost QR, and thus cannot make unused QR by themselves.

2) AFAIK, Invoker's charity is ONLY available to someone of the Blacksmith Archetype with the Alchemist specialization. Honestly, I've seen very few times where Andrew has been that explicit about calling out something on the boards - I think that's a hard no.

of course, your Norn is free to overrule that.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:03 am 
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This isn't a very common occurrence. The most common situations for unused QR:
1) Stalo's ancestral weapon
2) Blacksmith is making something but waiting on someone to unlock a power that they want to infuse
3) You find a magic item with some unused QR (advised for Norns with Blacksmith players)
4) There's a monster in the works who can disenchant items (Lords of the Ash)

Creature Reliquary, Realm Ores and Dvergar Engineering boost QR for the benefits provided. Let me know which text may be misleading and we'll try and correct it in any future reprints.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:42 pm 
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andrew wrote:
Creature Reliquary, Realm Ores and Dvergar Engineering boost QR for the benefits provided. Let me know which text may be misleading and we'll try and correct it in any future reprints.

Andrew- it is not that the text is misleading but rather that after running a handful of sessions my players where screeming bloody murder to the tune of burn the blood wolf ulfhednar and his OPness that had required me to try and find a way to even consider opposing him on the battle. The result being denizens that had to much essence and survivability for anyone else- then to cope he raged and ended up killing everyone. I know that’s not the most original story so I looked it up on the forums and found Raleel’s post on the curves between fangs and blacksmithing and the greater design philosophy you had in mind when creating the game (I have both core books, but didn’t apply crafting to my game because we were just starting out and I was sticking to the first book). This opened my eyes to how to balance LITERALLY EVERYTHING with loot instead of piling more essence on the problem (which didn’t work). basically I am just being complete in my investigation to whats possible.

I will make a thread on my adventures and the learning process in the future for both your interest and to help other green norn's.
raleel wrote:
of course, your Norn is free to overrule that.


I am Norn <3
Thank you both for your responses you guys make this community a pleasure.

Edit:Formatting


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:04 pm 
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Nornsmith wrote:
Andrew- it is not that the text is misleading but rather that after running a handful of sessions my players where screeming bloody murder to the tune of burn the blood wolf ulfhednar and his OPness that had required me to try and find a way to even consider opposing him on the battle.


I suggest mental damage. it made my ulfhednar whine piteously. Don't oppose strength with strength. It's amazing how effective making him go out of wolf form all the time is :) His major power (blood wolf form) is really strongly contingent on him drawing and maintaining it.

degeneration was a strong effect as well. he didn't have any solid defense except burning runes, which made his wolf form not useful :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:23 pm 
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I am aware of this and these tactics- however my true problem lied in my in knowledge of how to properly scale item QR via the crafting mechanic and how a lack of power on the side of the other dwellers who didn't have blood wolf fangs rage felt disenfranchised by the ulfhednar who had rage fangs and bloodwolf and was just always unstoppable. Yes I could have killed him dead yes I could of flayed his mind yes i could habe done alot of things to shut him out but rather than include those kind of foes in EVERY combat to tempure him for the rest of the party I decided that removing the class from the table considering if its warping my sessions that much its a problem. then committing to generating usable equipment (because book equipment is cardboard- for good reason but still) for the dwellers.

Your thread on fangs alone is what convinced me of this honestly and while it is a brutish method that I don't plan on lasting forever fangs is simply no fun for the table because of how brutally effective it is at what it does (or rather my table).

He's happily playing a stalo- he just likes hitting stuff. The party is happy that they get to hit stuff to.

That said I decided all of this AFTER testing a session where I had enemies designed to fight him. Spears/dance away/diehard in good numbers. Its not mental damage sure but the main problem isn't the damage its attack for 10 attack for 10 attack for 10- I could have them activate deflect meta to get over his 10+ DMG 6pierce and deflect is Awsome problem is its rune costly for the defender and he's got more in the barrel and it works to well on everything else and made them feel even less powerful. So I came to my desicions as for drawing and maintaining he would walk around always as a wolf... I mean why wouldn't he? Yes I could have penalized this somehow creatively but other than direct punishment I don't really see how it solves it- and I don't like heaping hate on players cause they are doing to well- that's bad morning IMO.

P.S. degeneration is great but his friend is a druid who just healbots conditions with catharsis. Party got real smart about conditions. My best trick was rusalki all starting at shroud 4- this tempured him until he tactically brought himself to lower in the initiative so he could max DMG.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:11 am 
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Nornsmith wrote:
I am aware of this and these tactics- however my true problem lied in my in knowledge of how to properly scale item QR via the crafting mechanic and how a lack of power on the side of the other dwellers who didn't have blood wolf fangs rage felt disenfranchised by the ulfhednar who had rage fangs and bloodwolf and was just always unstoppable. Yes I could have killed him dead yes I could of flayed his mind yes i could habe done alot of things to shut him out but rather than include those kind of foes in EVERY combat to tempure him for the rest of the party I decided that removing the class from the table considering if its warping my sessions that much its a problem. then committing to generating usable equipment (because book equipment is cardboard- for good reason but still) for the dwellers.

Your thread on fangs alone is what convinced me of this honestly and while it is a brutish method that I don't plan on lasting forever fangs is simply no fun for the table because of how brutally effective it is at what it does (or rather my table).


you know - that's completely understandable, and I've faced that same decision.

Nornsmith wrote:
He's happily playing a stalo- he just likes hitting stuff. The party is happy that they get to hit stuff to.


excellent. at least then he's playing in the same realm with everyone else.

Nornsmith wrote:
That said I decided all of this AFTER testing a session where I had enemies designed to fight him. Spears/dance away/diehard in good numbers. Its not mental damage sure but the main problem isn't the damage its attack for 10 attack for 10 attack for 10- I could have them activate deflect meta to get over his 10+ DMG 6pierce and deflect is Awsome problem is its rune costly for the defender and he's got more in the barrel and it works to well on everything else and made them feel even less powerful. So I came to my desicions as for drawing and maintaining he would walk around always as a wolf... I mean why wouldn't he? Yes I could have penalized this somehow creatively but other than direct punishment I don't really see how it solves it- and I don't like heaping hate on players cause they are doing to well- that's bad morning IMO.


yep. there is no winning in that rat race. I completely get it. I ended up using range, and while it didn't really hit him hard, it made everyone else see the value of range, which would have balanced him. He moves 6 or so , but range 10 is more than that :)

Nornsmith wrote:
P.S. degeneration is great but his friend is a druid who just healbots conditions with catharsis. Party got real smart about conditions. My best trick was rusalki all starting at shroud 4- this tempured him until he tactically brought himself to lower in the initiative so he could max DMG.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:53 pm 
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Tl:Dr ulfhednar power lead me to investigating what is truely out there for everyone in terms of power scaling.
Equipment is important and I just wanted to know the full range of QR budget when crafting a battle chest worth of items.

Nornsmith out


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:10 am 
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Nornsmith wrote:
andrew wrote:
Creature Reliquary, Realm Ores and Dvergar Engineering boost QR for the benefits provided. Let me know which text may be misleading and we'll try and correct it in any future reprints.

Andrew- it is not that the text is misleading but rather that after running a handful of sessions my players where screeming bloody murder to the tune of burn the blood wolf ulfhednar and his OPness that had required me to try and find a way to even consider opposing him on the battle. The result being denizens that had to much essence and survivability for anyone else- then to cope he raged and ended up killing everyone. I know that’s not the most original story so I looked it up on the forums and found Raleel’s post on the curves between fangs and blacksmithing and the greater design philosophy you had in mind when creating the game (I have both core books, but didn’t apply crafting to my game because we were just starting out and I was sticking to the first book). This opened my eyes to how to balance LITERALLY EVERYTHING with loot instead of piling more essence on the problem (which didn’t work). basically I am just being complete in my investigation to whats possible.

I will make a thread on my adventures and the learning process in the future for both your interest and to help other green norn's.
raleel wrote:
of course, your Norn is free to overrule that.


I am Norn <3
Thank you both for your responses you guys make this community a pleasure.

Edit:Formatting


I know that "Ulfhednar OP" is a common first post on the boards by new players. The veterans usually chime in and give a great deal of context around the first impression and usually provide tools/tips to make sure its a level playing field new newbie campaigns. I know one of the main reasons for this issue is because we had to go ahead and print the CRB without the Blacksmith and the crafting system. This left one side scaling while the other was locked into CRB equipment. With 20/20 hindsight, the unarmed shouldn't have scaled, but instead been given a larger static bonus with the drawback of not wielding equipment. Then in DotN both should have scaled. Anyhow, with DotN I hope it's fixed, but I hate to think about the groups that have the CRB, don't visit the forums and don't have DotN. With both books I hope there are enough tools at a Norn's disposal that the playing field is leveled. If you don't experience it that way, I definitely want to hear from you. :)

Lords of the Ash beta will be starting up and I hope to have all the vets onboard. There will be A LOT of new stuff to test.

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