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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:34 pm
Posts: 101
Heya, some questions came up tonite, eager to hear other ppl's opinions:


Example Blacksmith:
DF 6 (P)
Reach 1
Infused Power: Power Attack.
Void Rune: Infused Strike


The Blacksmith Plays his Void Rune, Amplifies it once.

He then does an Attack with 6 P dmg from Infused Strike, an Attack with 8 dmg from Power Attack#1 and another Power Attack #2 for 8p dmg.


Questions:

1) Can you use Invokers Charity to grant one of the Power Attacks a Meta ? E.g. Power attack to double that dmg.
Infused Strike says "no Meta for the Infused skill allowed", but as it's the Void passive of the Blacksmith we are not sure if that sentence could mean "no normal way of adding Metas (e.g. by playing runes) to the Infused skill". Or is the passive really intended to just work with "nomally activated" Infused powers (via simple void rune, not via Infused Strike) ?


2) Contingency:
Let's assume the opponent played a contingency stating "when I get attacked, I move away" earlier that round.

Would that already trigger after the first attack , then the opponent could move away and as he is no longer in Reach, the 2x Power attack ... fizzles ?

Or is the Attack chain the BS unleashes supposed to be "1 action with 3 Attacks" which all resolve, then the opponent gets his contingency ?

As we try to avoid Sheherazad'esque interlocking of contingency-actions we normally play that way that 1 action has to fully resolve, before a contingency is then triggered (i.e. for Lunging attack you get the move AND the Attack, only after that a contingency on a move trigger, triggers). It's hard for us to discern the intent for Infused strike though as..well we didn't have double or triple attacks yet.

3) What happens when you push your opponent with a block ? (Vengeful parry)
Lets say, after the fist attack the BS is pushed back, what happens with the 2x Power attack ?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:38 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:53 pm
Posts: 971
Audun wrote:
Heya, some questions came up tonite, eager to hear other ppl's opinions:


Example Blacksmith:
DF 6 (P)
Reach 1
Infused Power: Power Attack.
Void Rune: Infused Strike


The Blacksmith Plays his Void Rune, Amplifies it once.


keeping track in here, this makes it an Attack + a Minor Sacrifice 2 to trigger the Active power twice

Audun wrote:
He then does an Attack with 6 P dmg from Infused Strike, an Attack with 8 dmg from Power Attack#1 and another Power Attack #2 for 8p dmg.


ok, yes :)

Audun wrote:
Questions:

1) Can you use Invokers Charity to grant one of the Power Attacks a Meta ? E.g. Power attack to double that dmg.
Infused Strike says "no Meta for the Infused skill allowed", but as it's the Void passive of the Blacksmith we are not sure if that sentence could mean "no normal way of adding Metas (e.g. by playing runes) to the Infused skill". Or is the passive really intended to just work with "nomally activated" Infused powers (via simple void rune, not via Infused Strike) ?


I would say no, only because infused strike specifically excludes the use of Metas. however, I don't see it being a giant issue, per se, so I might house rule it, but I haven't used infused items enough to know why it would exclude meta tags.

Audun wrote:
2) Contingency:
Let's assume the opponent played a contingency stating "when I get attacked, I move away" earlier that round.

Would that already trigger after the first attack , then the opponent could move away and as he is no longer in Reach, the 2x Power attack ... fizzles ?

Or is the Attack chain the BS unleashes supposed to be "1 action with 3 Attacks" which all resolve, then the opponent gets his contingency ?


I say the second. The reason I say this is that, while it says " an attack", I think it is functionally using it as a mechanism to use the extra power. To put it another way, I don't think there is another swing in there.

Audun wrote:
As we try to avoid Sheherazad'esque interlocking of contingency-actions we normally play that way that 1 action has to fully resolve, before a contingency is then triggered (i.e. for Lunging attack you get the move AND the Attack, only after that a contingency on a move trigger, triggers). It's hard for us to discern the intent for Infused strike though as..well we didn't have double or triple attacks yet.


I tend to view Moves as interruptable, but not attacks. Thus one can do Opportunity Attacks from D&D, but it is costly. I suppose it also allows for hit and run actions (contingency "when I am within my reach of that guy, I attack" then move within reach, attack, then keep moving).

I tend to view contingencies as a gamble - are they going to do what you think they are? It's relatively easy to screw with their contingencies and still be effective.

Audun wrote:
3) What happens when you push your opponent with a block ? (Vengeful parry)
Lets say, after the fist attack the BS is pushed back, what happens with the 2x Power attack ?


I think I view it as simultaneously multiple attacks, so the power attacks all go off, then the push back happens.

I should note, this isn't actually a new issue at all. Even before denizens, this could happen with whirlwind attack and vengeful parry. what if one of those defenders knocks you out of each of the other people? I think the trick is to be consistent.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:13 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:39 am
Posts: 1143
Audun wrote:
Heya, some questions came up tonite, eager to hear other ppl's opinions:


Example Blacksmith:
DF 6 (P)
Reach 1
Infused Power: Power Attack.
Void Rune: Infused Strike


The Blacksmith Plays his Void Rune, Amplifies it once.

He then does an Attack with 6 P dmg from Infused Strike, an Attack with 8 dmg from Power Attack#1 and another Power Attack #2 for 8p dmg.


Questions:

1) Can you use Invokers Charity to grant one of the Power Attacks a Meta ? E.g. Power attack to double that dmg.
Infused Strike says "no Meta for the Infused skill allowed", but as it's the Void passive of the Blacksmith we are not sure if that sentence could mean "no normal way of adding Metas (e.g. by playing runes) to the Infused skill". Or is the passive really intended to just work with "nomally activated" Infused powers (via simple void rune, not via Infused Strike) ?


Nope, Infused strike says no metas, no matter how you may be able to achieve them (play rune or sacrifice). Infused Strike went through many nerfs until we got to that wording. Trust me, it can be used in creative and crazy ways without the meta benefit. ;)

Audun wrote:
2) Contingency:
Let's assume the opponent played a contingency stating "when I get attacked, I move away" earlier that round.

Would that already trigger after the first attack , then the opponent could move away and as he is no longer in Reach, the 2x Power attack ... fizzles ?

Or is the Attack chain the BS unleashes supposed to be "1 action with 3 Attacks" which all resolve, then the opponent gets his contingency ?

As we try to avoid Sheherazad'esque interlocking of contingency-actions we normally play that way that 1 action has to fully resolve, before a contingency is then triggered (i.e. for Lunging attack you get the move AND the Attack, only after that a contingency on a move trigger, triggers). It's hard for us to discern the intent for Infused strike though as..well we didn't have double or triple attacks yet.


We word interrupts and contingencies in a way that rune chains must resolve fully to avoid as you say nested "Sheherazad'esque" scenarios. It's designed in a way to keep things clean so you focus on actions rather than how those actions should be resolved. Now that said, in our weekly game, we allow interrupts and contingencies to trigger after a source completes. This gives a more granular timing but you have to have a good handle on the game mechanics in order to avoid any pitfalls.

Audun wrote:
3) What happens when you push your opponent with a block ? (Vengeful parry)
Lets say, after the fist attack the BS is pushed back, what happens with the 2x Power attack ?


Defend actions are the exception, they resolve fully before the active power finishes. They are the second reason reach 1 weapons are suboptimal. The first being a damaged weapon. ;)

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