Fate of the Norns

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 Post subject: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:39 pm 
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Hi,

I'm new to FotNs but not new to RPGs, in fact I'm an old guy. I -love- FotN, it is so different from what I'm used to with respect to mechanics, and aesthetically the coolest game I've seen. My game group is learning FotNs and we've generated some questions. I'll only post my first few to begin....

1. We have a Beserkir with an Active Power "Unleash the Beast" and a Passive Power "Raging Bear". We aren't certain that this character can change his shape in the first round of combat with these powers, the wording doesn't provide a clear indication to us. It's entirely possible that we're a bit dense. It seems like he really should be able to change in the first round, especially since we have an Ulfhednar that can change in the first round clearly. Can the Beserkir change shape in the first round with this combination of powers?

2. Maintain Meta--does the maintain meta persist until it is broken dispelled at will, or does it only extend to a single round after the round in which it was invoked?

3. Most archetypes get an additional power that is not on the boards. Is this additional power bound to the Void rune?

Thanks,

Lang


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:11 pm 
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0uroboros wrote:
Hi,


Howdy!


0uroboros wrote:
I'm new to FotNs but not new to RPGs, in fact I'm an old guy. I -love- FotN, it is so different from what I'm used to with respect to mechanics, and aesthetically the coolest game I've seen. My game group is learning FotNs and we've generated some questions. I'll only post my first few to begin....


no problem. I think there are many on here who started this way.

0uroboros wrote:
1. We have a Beserkir with an Active Power "Unleash the Beast" and a Passive Power "Raging Bear". We aren't certain that this character can change his shape in the first round of combat with these powers, the wording doesn't provide a clear indication to us. It's entirely possible that we're a bit dense. It seems like he really should be able to change in the first round, especially since we have an Ulfhednar that can change in the first round clearly. Can the Beserkir change shape in the first round with this combination of powers?


I don't think it is explicitly laid out anywhere in the rules. However, the general consensus for the Ulfhednar is that he starts with the runes that he needs for being in Wolf form In Play if he is in wolf form before combat begins.

So, it stands to reason that the Berserkir could start in bear form if he was running around in it. I would have him start at Rage 4 once combat began and be in bear form. This is what we did in my game. If he wasn't in bear form AND combat starts, he needs to rage up. However, that should go pretty quick. The berserkir we had was in bear form a lot.

0uroboros wrote:
2. Maintain Meta--does the maintain meta persist until it is broken dispelled at will, or does it only extend to a single round after the round in which it was invoked?


It stays out until dispelled at will or via Mental damage. This is in fact a good use for Mental damage - to knock out Maintains

0uroboros wrote:
3. Most archetypes get an additional power that is not on the boards. Is this additional power bound to the Void rune?


yes it is, p88 of the core rule book toward the top.


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:57 pm 
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Thanks Raleel! Next batch...

Regarding Conditions:
1. I've read the description of the condition Flow. I'd like another description of this condition. I and my group find this to be the most opaque.
2. Degeneration is pretty nasty compared to most of the other conditions, am I right? Half your level seems pretty steep for damage.

Does Intensity automatically decrement per round unless otherwise specified?

Finally, the void rune is not used for damage, right?

thanks!

Lang


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:32 pm 
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0uroboros wrote:
Thanks Raleel! Next batch...

Regarding Conditions:
1. I've read the description of the condition Flow. I'd like another description of this condition. I and my group find this to be the most opaque.


Think of Flow similar to combo building in a fighting game like street fighter - maybe Killer Instinct if you've ever played that. You can youtube it up as well. There are quite a few other video games that have that notion.

It's walking through the steps of a kata, or performing a series of maneuvers, or maybe building chi if this was an Asian martial arts game. All of these things require discipline and focus. It's very difficult to achieve that with so much anger in you.

In my own game, the stalo would build flow and we flavored it as him getting a halo similar to Ken from Fist of the North Star.

0uroboros wrote:
2. Degeneration is pretty nasty compared to most of the other conditions, am I right? Half your level seems pretty steep for damage.


Well, it's sort of relative, depending on your damage track and your expectations.

A level 12 guy might have Essence 6 and Destiny 3. On the middle (grey) damage track, that is effectively 30 points of damage - 5 rounds until he goes down. On the black damage track, he has effectively 42 hp (7 spots until death) - 7 rounds. On the white track, that's a mere 18 points.

To be honest, that's pretty light damage actually. The same level 12 guy, lets say, is an ulfhendar. He hits his Blood Wolf Form (this will almost certainly come up - it is the single most talked about power on the board), he becomes Size 8 and gets a 3P bite that self heals for 2. Then he hits you with Mauling - now it's at 6P, 2 Pierce, and still heals for 2. Then he Amplifies twice - 18P is a lot of damage at that level. This doesn't count any passives that can increase it (like Fangs and Unarmed Power and Might).

FotN is very much a game where something like "He do 125 points of damage! Well, I reflect it and Multi the reflect and do 375" happens. You can find that particular example on the board somewhere here - it involved a blacksmith as I remember.

0uroboros wrote:
Does Intensity automatically decrement per round unless otherwise specified?


Nope, it depends on the condition. You have the opportunity to make a Minor Sacrifice to reduce it by one each round on upkeep. Rage, for example, goes away if you are not Hulk Smashing. Curse doesn't go away unless there is something that makes it go down. Shroud drops if you are targeted, etc.

0uroboros wrote:
Finally, the void rune is not used for damage, right?


Correct. It NEVER goes into damage. It's the edge that heroes have. It is the bit you get to prevent being stun locked by mental damage.

0uroboros wrote:
thanks!

Lang


no problem. happy to help.


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:58 pm 
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Raleel you rock! :P

thanks for the responses, I'm sure I'll have more questions after our next session.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Posts: 5
I'm back with a few more questions for anyone that can help...

1. Can you counter/nullify incoming spells with a generic defense action by playing a rune of the same type as the spell?
2. Is there a difference between Heal and Recover? Both words seem to be used in the same context.
3. With respect to Conditions, incremental values are equivalent to duration in rounds, correct?
4. Regarding Possession--this is another active power that my group seems to find overpowered. A level 10 character can throw this at a much higher denizen and basically disable him/her. Any tips on this power? Perhaps we're not using it properly.

thanks,

Lang


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:05 pm 
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0uroboros wrote:
I'm back with a few more questions for anyone that can help...

1. Can you counter/nullify incoming spells with a generic defense action by playing a rune of the same type as the spell?


sort of - playing a rune that is the same type as the damage doesn't completely negate it, but it does give you a point of evade, which can help negate the damage

0uroboros wrote:
2. Is there a difference between Heal and Recover? Both words seem to be used in the same context.


yes, there is. Recover can only heal from Stun. Heal can heal from everywhere that is not Drain. On a related note, you cannot, for example, use a Heal +4 to heal 4 wounds up to Stun, then use a recover +4 to get them into your essence. You have to run them all the way into essence with the heal, then use recover, or do ones in stun with recover first.

0uroboros wrote:
3. With respect to Conditions, incremental values are equivalent to duration in rounds, correct?


nope. Conditions stick around based on their own parameters. For example, aura only decreases (by default) when the recipient wills it, but Rage decreases when you don't deal or receive damage. Several of the conditions do allow you to pay a rune to decrease them during upkeep, however, and this can lead one to that impression.

0uroboros wrote:
4. Regarding Possession--this is another active power that my group seems to find overpowered. A level 10 character can throw this at a much higher denizen and basically disable him/her. Any tips on this power? Perhaps we're not using it properly.


I assume you are referring to Possess Opponent, which inflicts the Possession condition. It can be countered as follows
  • pay an S rune (or 2 of another color - see morphing runes) to counter when affected
  • have others with remove condition powers at any time
  • pay a rune during upkeep to drop it.

yes, you can, theoretically hit someone with a 3x amplified Possess Opponent when they have no runes to counter and remove their ability to counter it entirely. keep around a counter for it in contingency, or have a power handy.

Conditions are one of those things that are a whole new area. Having a power around to do that is good for helping your team survive adversity. Interestingly enough, it is also handy in shutting down certain conditions, like rage or aura or taunt or shroud.


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:44 pm 
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raleel wrote:
0uroboros wrote:
4. Regarding Possession--this is another active power that my group seems to find overpowered. A level 10 character can throw this at a much higher denizen and basically disable him/her. Any tips on this power? Perhaps we're not using it properly.


I assume you are referring to Possess Opponent, which inflicts the Possession condition. It can be countered as follows
  • pay an S rune (or 2 of another color - see morphing runes) to counter when affected
  • have others with remove condition powers at any time
  • pay a rune during upkeep to drop it.

yes, you can, theoretically hit someone with a 3x amplified Possess Opponent when they have no runes to counter and remove their ability to counter it entirely. keep around a counter for it in contingency, or have a power handy.

Conditions are one of those things that are a whole new area. Having a power around to do that is good for helping your team survive adversity. Interestingly enough, it is also handy in shutting down certain conditions, like rage or aura or taunt or shroud.


I am on my phone, so quickly chiming in on a common 1st timer problem of adding Focus to Conditions- you cannot add Focus to condition intensity. I am not sure if you're doing that, but I've seen it enough time, especially in combination with Possession it can be brutal. I think Raleel has everything else handled perfectly.

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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:31 am 
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Raleel and Andrew Thank You for your helpful responses!

We're getting the hang of it, with your assistance.


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 Post subject: Re: Newb with questions
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:14 am 
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0uroboros wrote:
1. Can you counter/nullify incoming spells with a generic defense action by playing a rune of the same type as the spell?


OK now that I am at my PC today, I can delve into your questions a little more. There are ways to counter the entire rune chain if it's a {spell} type. Page 101 of the CRB mentions that spells can be interrupted by adjacent enemies who can "poke" them by playing a rune.

Basically the spell caster plays the rune chain, then if you are adjacent, you get an opportunity to interrupt by playing any 1 rune. If interrupted, all runes in the chain are wasted, so do not declare an interrupt until the full rune chain has been played.

I have a much broader section devoted to interrupts in the redux rules set I am working on. Many questions have come up since the initial printing, for example:
Q1- Can I interrupt a spell caster from 2 hexes away if I have Aura of Influence (Passive power)?
A1- Yes

Q2- Can I interrupt someone using the reach of my weapon?
A2- No, you really need finesse and full body contact to interrupt.

Q3- Can I interrupt an archer?
A3- Sure why not

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