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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:46 pm 
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You're right 1 for 1 is a good trade.
I'd vote no counters on metas.

So is Orlog horror caster or genesis caster or both? I wasn't on the alpha. I like the way each archetype has it's own mini-mechanics since DotN. I hope this trend continues. I'd also like to see a redux of the CRB where the initial 5 get redone with their own mini-mechanics.


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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:02 pm 
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A new beta drop. Some more AoD adjustments have been done in response to the player feedback. I've also added in the Orlog. The Orlog brings a new component to the game table: the Vegvisir playmat.

This playmat has a bit of history with the FOTN line, although most have never seen it. Back in 2000 when FOTN 2e was in the works, we were looking at ways to add swashbuckling/fencing style sword play into the game, and this playmat/diagram was tested and ultimately replaced with the system we went with (the d10 dice system didn't need playmats). Then again in 2012 when we were looking at the brand new blacksmith/crafting system, and we were considering using a playmat for crafting. It was a way to forge different elements of an item in a collaborative fashion, and it showed tons of promise, but due to overly stretched deadlines, it was put on the back burner and in the end we didn't revisit the design when DotN was in development. In hindsight it should have been re-looked at for crafting in order to make the process more visual.

Now with the Orlog, I feel it's time to dust it off and take another shot at refining this mechanic. The design driver behind this playmat is: a visual way of representing the creation and evolution of something. It lends itself to collaboration where several players can crowd around the mat and work together to build/grow/evolve some creation.

It hasn't reached its full potential, but it's at a stage where we can explore several ways Void magic can be used to create new realities. Void magic involves the building blocks of all reality, so the Orlog's potential could be pretty vast and broad. In ALPHA we looked at creating:
- life forms (new races)
- realms of reality (pocket dimensions)
- create haunted and/or hallowed regions
- manipulate destiny
Gods & Norns can do so many of the above, but a mortal Orlog would be relegated to a narrow spectrum of capabilities. Which ones? Good question. We tried them all out in ALPHA. Out of all of the above, creating life-forms seemed the most interesting and rewarding. So there you have it, rules for creating new life. The Vegvisir playmat allows you to visually evolve your life form, and at a later iteration, collaboration will allow multiple Orlogs/players to work together at making something truly fascinating. And because this creation is borne out of strife, it happens only during the heat of battle.

What feedback I'd like to hear from our BETA players:
1) If your Orlog could create something specialized, what would you prefer (new race, pocket dimension, curses or hallowed lands, etc... sorry no destiny manipulation for the Orlog, but Voelva may piggy back on this system)
2) Would you like to have a visual representation, or would you rather avoid another prop on the table? Without the Vegvisir playmat we'd have a system similar to DotN crafting.
3) To players with 12+ months of RGS experience: how easily can you wrap your head around the concept? It's targeted at players who already have a solid grasp of basic RGS (Disir 4 requirement). Do we unify the axis rules (simplify), stay the course (as is), or add dependencies and cascading effects between the axis (more crunch)?

TLDR: Looks like this post turned out longer than intended. The Orlog is a very important and unique archetype that reflects several of the key story-lines to be revealed in the next few books (involves Norns, Nidhogg, Frey and the Alfar). Because of its rather high Disir requirements, it is going to get something really special for its mechanics.

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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:22 pm 
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FYI the diagram is missing the labels (power/skills).
In clockwise order starting top left: active powers (should have a red ruse in the top box, blue in middle and green in bottom), passive powers (top right), skills (bottom center)


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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:41 am 
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One of my players also found Chant of Skuld on the Orlog PAssive board, so that's not right ;)
Let's replace that with Die Hard

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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:13 am 
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After reading it, the Orlog feels really different and seems to stand apart from the other archetypes... I'd say they feel like they are somewhere between the basic archetypes and the disir 5 archetypes. Permanency seems like a pretty big game changer as well considering nothing ever lasted past the end of combat. So would Void magic account for things like the "hallowed peace ground" found in Briedablik? Since Void manipulates the most fundamental building blocks, did Void magic create the other magic? I think that would be the most fascinating for me personally. Loosely speaking, gate and summon already bring creatures into existence for the players, but something that could create magic like Mage: The Ascension would be super cool. I'm thinking you already have that in mind with the Voelva magic system.

By pocket dimensions I assume you're talking about realms like Alfgard or Nidavellir? FOTN does an amazing job of using very evocative and proprietary terms that make the game even more engrossing. GM? No we call them Norns. Character and NPC? No that's dweller and denizen. I would steer clear of words like "pocket dimension", "nodes" and "axis". These terms feel too "generic fantasy".

Another thought as I write this, you probably need to start an Orlog feedback thread.

Also Void magic seems like it would be used by more than just an Orlog. If Void magic has many spheres (probably too many to count if all of Yggdrasil was birthed by it), but Orlog is limited by only 3 specializations specializations. Soooo you can probably leave the door open for many more Void practitioners. My suggestion, remove mentions of Orlog when talking about Void magic, and develop Void magic as a solid stand alone magic system. I actually love the whole madness/horror slant and the Norn getting to play counter-metas which sometimes become beneficial.

BTW I'm still awaiting the full Einherjar... well more specifically my Disir 5 player is! :D


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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:13 pm 
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As I understand it, the Void is basically the gap in between the 9 realms or Yggdrasil, and knowing how to pull from the Void is like knowing how to put the building blocks of life together.

I didn't get to do much with my Orlog, as I did an experiment by sending my creation to try and distract a large creature (and failed, as it just got walked over). The life skills are interesting, especially as making chains allows the Norn to draw runes to alter the chain. I will definitely try to keep my creature closer next time so I could have a bigger role in its creation.

A few things I don't know or understand are as follows.
-A couple of the Life skills have the Abate meta, and I'm not entirely sure why I, as a player, would ever want to trigger that.
-Once my creature has a permanency tag, can I dismiss that chain but keep the creature there? Does that mean I can no longer alter it's shape on the Velvegir (sp?) map?
-If I start making a second creature, do I use the same map? Does the appearance of the creature have to be the same thing, or is each instance of the Create X a different creature?
-Not that I want to make many different maps, but can I use a different Velvegir map for different creatures?
-Aside from the runes being knocked off the chain, is there any advantage to having more Open or Permanency metas?
-Can I only move on to a second arm of the attribute tree by amplifying on my primary stat?
-Does the void creature cause madness only while there is no mental rune, or only after permanency is applied? Would the void rune itself qualify if it was mental?

I'm sure more will come after I do some more play testing. For now, I'm sure that's more than enough to sort out for now.


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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:33 am 
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ccccFranklin wrote:
After reading it, the Orlog feels really different and seems to stand apart from the other archetypes... I'd say they feel like they are somewhere between the basic archetypes and the disir 5 archetypes. Permanency seems like a pretty big game changer as well considering nothing ever lasted past the end of combat. So would Void magic account for things like the "hallowed peace ground" found in Briedablik? Since Void manipulates the most fundamental building blocks, did Void magic create the other magic? I think that would be the most fascinating for me personally. Loosely speaking, gate and summon already bring creatures into existence for the players, but something that could create magic like Mage: The Ascension would be super cool. I'm thinking you already have that in mind with the Voelva magic system.

By pocket dimensions I assume you're talking about realms like Alfgard or Nidavellir? FOTN does an amazing job of using very evocative and proprietary terms that make the game even more engrossing. GM? No we call them Norns. Character and NPC? No that's dweller and denizen. I would steer clear of words like "pocket dimension", "nodes" and "axis". These terms feel too "generic fantasy".

Another thought as I write this, you probably need to start an Orlog feedback thread.

Also Void magic seems like it would be used by more than just an Orlog. If Void magic has many spheres (probably too many to count if all of Yggdrasil was birthed by it), but Orlog is limited by only 3 specializations specializations. Soooo you can probably leave the door open for many more Void practitioners. My suggestion, remove mentions of Orlog when talking about Void magic, and develop Void magic as a solid stand alone magic system. I actually love the whole madness/horror slant and the Norn getting to play counter-metas which sometimes become beneficial.

BTW I'm still awaiting the full Einherjar... well more specifically my Disir 5 player is! :D


I slept on it and I REALLY like the idea of decoupling Void magic from the Vegvisir playmat. In the future any creation process could use the Vegvisir playmat, and Void magic can encompass more than just creation. From an mechanical design perspective, I think its a winner. Thanks cccc!

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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:32 pm 
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andrew wrote:
What feedback I'd like to hear from our BETA players:
1) If your Orlog could create something specialized, what would you prefer (new race, pocket dimension, curses or hallowed lands, etc... sorry no destiny manipulation for the Orlog, but Voelva may piggy back on this system)
2) Would you like to have a visual representation, or would you rather avoid another prop on the table? Without the Vegvisir playmat we'd have a system similar to DotN crafting.
3) To players with 12+ months of RGS experience: how easily can you wrap your head around the concept? It's targeted at players who already have a solid grasp of basic RGS (Disir 4 requirement). Do we unify the axis rules (simplify), stay the course (as is), or add dependencies and cascading effects between the axis (more crunch)?


1) Why not 3 aspects since Orlog has 3 specs?
2) Bro, you know I've always been a fan of the Vegvisir everytime it made an appearance
3) Simplecakes! You can add some synnergy in the axes

PAX!

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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Posts: 133
tshober wrote:
Rajjj about your Drain suggestion, I think it holds up until the AoD takes too much physical damage and then she stalls out and dies. I saw it happen just last week in a level 10 test game. Your approach with little to no heals makes it that her only option is to self inflict spiritual damage and then draw the NEXT round. And I still hold onto my opinion that nothing should touch the Drain pile. Well we should restart the debate in the right thread.


Bro anytime anywhere! ;)
She's part of a team, if she gets runes on the wounds track all she needs to do is run up to a healer in the group.

PAX!

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 Post subject: Re: beta
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:28 pm 
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There has been a surge in BETA feedback from all groups participating and I hope I captured all of it and reflected into the last BETA drop that just went live. :)

Changes:
- Eitri the Dvergar has been added as a godi patron. Let's test how a blacksmith Godi stacks up against a traditional Blacksmith.
- AoD meta tag change for Armageddon Strike & AoD Passive power language tightened up. The AoD continues to be the most popular new archetype seeing a lot of play.
- Orlog, Vigvisir and Void magic have been decoupled (but still work together). The Orlog is just starting out and I hope with the community's guidance it will grow into a very cool new rune mechanic. The Orlog and Void magic have a impactful role in the creation myths and the preordained events of Ragnarok.
- Vigvisir board creation rules are now included. these rules have a lot of potential in crafting, gating, etc. First let's see how well we can get them to work with new life, and then we can see how to expand the scope.

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