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 Post subject: A couple of questions
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 12:11 pm 
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I have a couple of questions that properly have been asked before. Sorry for that, but I hope the forum will come to my resque anyway:

1) Can you wield 2 size 3 or 4 shields and get both parry values?

2) How does the Taunt condtion Works?
One of my players is using Taunt and says no matter what actions my creature would consider using - move away, parry or attack another combatant, the creature should pay 1/4 of their runes in Destiny. Is this correct?

If my creature is attacking the dweller with taunt, then the creature should use all their runes to attack? The creature could not spare one or two runes for defending another combatant that attacks later in the combat round?

Is this realy how it should Work? I think is overpowered this way!

3) Lets say you have 2 levels of intensity in the degeneration condition. Can you then reduce the intensity in the degeneration condition by spending a rune in upkeep, taking the damage for have +1 intensity in the degeneration condition and then making a minor sacrifice to reduce the intensity by one more?

4) Can a spell be interrupted by a foe stading 4 hexes away if that foe has reach 4?

5) How does you calculate reach for a monster with size 6 and for size 11, for example?

6) Does Pierce reduce both PF and Parry values?

7) What does amplify exactly amplify? Does it amplify DF, PF, Parry, Pierce, Heal etc.

8) Do you have to have ranks in Hunting/Trapping to use powers that use snare?

Thats all for now ;)

BR Marlowolves


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Marlowolves wrote:
I have a couple of questions that properly have been asked before. Sorry for that, but I hope the forum will come to my resque anyway:

1) Can you wield 2 size 3 or 4 shields and get both parry values?


I allowed them to stack. weapons and shields do, I see no reason why shield and shield should not.

Marlowolves wrote:
2) How does the Taunt condtion Works?
One of my players is using Taunt and says no matter what actions my creature would consider using - move away, parry or attack another combatant, the creature should pay 1/4 of their runes in Destiny. Is this correct?


Yes, technically correct, though I've not charged 1/4 cost if they can only move. Do you by chance have a dual shield shieldmaiden in your group? :)
Marlowolves wrote:
If my creature is attacking the dweller with taunt, then the creature should use all their runes to attack? The creature could not spare one or two runes for defending another combatant that attacks later in the combat round?


no, that's kind of the point. However, I like making it hurt the taunter, so I put in ranged guys that are a ways away, or use spiritual/mental attacks.
Marlowolves wrote:
Is this realy how it should Work? I think is overpowered this way!


I agree. Mostly because it denies A LOT of runes over a very large area and there is little defense. I have not figured out the right solution yet. My inclination is towards an anti-taunt passive as well as requiring a certain number of runes be used to attack, rather than require ALL runes outside of the payment. Or, require the payment once, and it removes the condition until it is increased. I have not gone through and measured it though, but feel like I should.
Marlowolves wrote:
3) Lets say you have 2 levels of intensity in the degeneration condition. Can you then reduce the intensity in the degeneration condition by spending a rune in upkeep, taking the damage for have +1 intensity in the degeneration condition and then making a minor sacrifice to reduce the intensity by one more?

yep!
Marlowolves wrote:
4) Can a spell be interrupted by a foe stading 4 hexes away if that foe has reach 4?

more if you have a reach of 4, I think you mean. the rules say no, but I can see why you might think that way. there is a passive to make adjacent a wider area. that might help. Also, it's your game, you can do what you like there :)
Marlowolves wrote:
5) How does you calculate reach for a monster with size 6 and for size 11, for example?

reach is base 1(p119). +1 at level 6, +2 at level 10, +1 more at level 14, etc. so reach 2 and reach 3 respectively for your example.
Marlowolves wrote:
6) Does Pierce reduce both PF and Parry values?

yes, but not like that. Stack PF and parry, then reduce with pierce :)
Marlowolves wrote:
7) What does amplify exactly amplify? Does it amplify DF, PF, Parry, Pierce, Heal etc.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I think the only thing it doesn't amp is focus.
Marlowolves wrote:
8) Do you have to have ranks in Hunting/Trapping to use powers that use snare?

are there any other powers that snare?

I have allowed folks to spend a rune for a generic action and inflict impeded 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:32 am 
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raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
I have a couple of questions that properly have been asked before. Sorry for that, but I hope the forum will come to my resque anyway:

1) Can you wield 2 size 3 or 4 shields and get both parry values?


I allowed them to stack. weapons and shields do, I see no reason why shield and shield should not.

Yes
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
2) How does the Taunt condtion Works?
One of my players is using Taunt and says no matter what actions my creature would consider using - move away, parry or attack another combatant, the creature should pay 1/4 of their runes in Destiny. Is this correct?


Yes, technically correct, though I've not charged 1/4 cost if they can only move. Do you by chance have a dual shield shieldmaiden in your group? :)

If the denizen is in the Maiden's taunt range, they have a choice: (1) play 1/2 their Destiny in order to ignore the taunt for 1 round, or (2) spend all their runes trying to kill her (and nothing else).
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
If my creature is attacking the dweller with taunt, then the creature should use all their runes to attack? The creature could not spare one or two runes for defending another combatant that attacks later in the combat round?


no, that's kind of the point. However, I like making it hurt the taunter, so I put in ranged guys that are a ways away, or use spiritual/mental attacks.

You are correct. But in many cases the MoR can get overwhelmed, so she must know when to use the power wisely.
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
Is this realy how it should Work? I think is overpowered this way!


I agree. Mostly because it denies A LOT of runes over a very large area and there is little defense. I have not figured out the right solution yet. My inclination is towards an anti-taunt passive as well as requiring a certain number of runes be used to attack, rather than require ALL runes outside of the payment. Or, require the payment once, and it removes the condition until it is increased. I have not gone through and measured it though, but feel like I should.

It is and it isn't. Unlike the Berserker (Rage), she doesn't get any Condition (Taunt) benefit to her attributes. So many times, badly planned, she can get swarmed. RGS is about resource management. A swarm usually means her rune output is outclassed by more runes played.
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
3) Lets say you have 2 levels of intensity in the degeneration condition. Can you then reduce the intensity in the degeneration condition by spending a rune in upkeep, taking the damage for have +1 intensity in the degeneration condition and then making a minor sacrifice to reduce the intensity by one more?

yep!

Yes
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
4) Can a spell be interrupted by a foe stading 4 hexes away if that foe has reach 4?

more if you have a reach of 4, I think you mean. the rules say no, but I can see why you might think that way. there is a passive to make adjacent a wider area. that might help. Also, it's your game, you can do what you like there :)

No, you need to be very precise in your interrupt actions, requiring you to be adjacent. You could house rule extra runes played at a longer reach.
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
5) How does you calculate reach for a monster with size 6 and for size 11, for example?

reach is base 1(p119). +1 at level 6, +2 at level 10, +1 more at level 14, etc. so reach 2 and reach 3 respectively for your example.

yup
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
6) Does Pierce reduce both PF and Parry values?

yes, but not like that. Stack PF and parry, then reduce with pierce :)

As Raleel says
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
7) What does amplify exactly amplify? Does it amplify DF, PF, Parry, Pierce, Heal etc.

yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I think the only thing it doesn't amp is focus.

Amplify affects all numbers in the active power description. Some numbers are written out as words and that's intentional so that they don't get amplified. Attack actions have DF amped and Defend has Parry & Evade amped.
raleel wrote:
Marlowolves wrote:
8) Do you have to have ranks in Hunting/Trapping to use powers that use snare?

are there any other powers that snare?

I have allowed folks to spend a rune for a generic action and inflict impeded 1.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Thanks Raleel and Andrew for your time to answer these questions. That is much appreciated.

2) Taunt: What about doing it this way.
If [A] is taunting [B], then [B] have to use 1/4 of their runes to attack [A] per level of Taunt [A] have in Taunt.
I know I can use denizens with ranged attack and spells, but the Saga in Fate_of_the_Norns_Ragnarok_Denizens_of_the_North doesn' t have lots of those type of denizens and if throw in any of these types of denizens then my Ulfhednar just runs them Down with his amazing speed in Wolf form.

4) So you have to be adjacent to a spellcaster to interrupt the casting of a spell.
The same goes for interrupting ranged attack?

8) In Fate_of_the_Norns_Ragnarok_Denizens_of_the_North there is 4 active powers called Traps and all mention Snare and the snare description talks about the Hunting/trapping skill and therefore I wondered if you should have ranks in the Hunting/trapping skill to use these active powers?

BR Marlowolves


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:56 am 
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2/ for conditions that are very broad i am tempted to house rule an ability that allows that one person take the brunt of the "avoid/ignore" action and all others with 4 hexes can burn runes to benefit too. Especially for taunt and shroud type actions that are not supernatural in source. Not yet decided on the cost yet :)

4/ correct

8/ no not that i am aware. Skills and powers are all seperate.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:03 am 
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Marlowolves wrote:
Thanks Raleel and Andrew for your time to answer these questions. That is much appreciated.

2) Taunt: What about doing it this way.
If [A] is taunting [B], then [B] have to use 1/4 of their runes to attack [A] per level of Taunt [A] have in Taunt.
I know I can use denizens with ranged attack and spells, but the Saga in Fate_of_the_Norns_Ragnarok_Denizens_of_the_North doesn' t have lots of those type of denizens and if throw in any of these types of denizens then my Ulfhednar just runs them Down with his amazing speed in Wolf form.

4) So you have to be adjacent to a spellcaster to interrupt the casting of a spell.
The same goes for interrupting ranged attack?

8) In Fate_of_the_Norns_Ragnarok_Denizens_of_the_North there is 4 active powers called Traps and all mention Snare and the snare description talks about the Hunting/trapping skill and therefore I wondered if you should have ranks in the Hunting/trapping skill to use these active powers?

BR Marlowolves


2) I'm always curious what house rules peeps come up with so please post them once you have it figured out. For a rules designer, it helps see other perspectives and takes on the RGS.

4) Khunkwai is correct

8) Page 287 DotN, Snare level is determined by dweller level + instances of hunting/trapping. So while not necessary to use the trap Active powers, they do help.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:03 am 
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Quote:
2) I'm always curious what house rules peeps come up with so please post them once you have it figured out. For a rules designer, it helps see other perspectives and takes on the RGS.


Presently for Shroud and Taunt my thoughts are to allow anyone within 4 hexes of the person making the main spend, to immediately also spend One Mental Rune to piggy back on the other Dwellers rune spend. However this extra spend does not lower the Condition level (such as in the case of shroud) and for Taunt if the Taunt is at level 4, to require 2 Mental Runes.

Mental Runes could be matched the same way as per skills (so 2 P to make the M)

In the case of shroud, this means they take note of the primary actor pointing out the hidden target

In the case of Taunt, this means the primary actor has perhaps shouted down the Taunter and all with four hexes hear this.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:38 am 
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The way you're handling it looks like cinematic/generic actions- that's to be encouraged! :)

"Hey I want to spot the guy for the team, then grab him or tag him and I shout so everyone can see."

Perfect!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:59 am 
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I think khunkwai is expressing something that I have pondered about shroud and taunt that are different from the other conditions - the affect others more than you at larger range and are really lacking in counters. It took me forever to really put a finger on it.

Lets take a look at the conditions:
  • aura - 4 range max, but affects many others. this one is close to too powerful for me, but you can use ranged to get out of being hurt. I think that's fair. No passives to control directly, though it's damage and there are plenty of counters via healing
  • blind - affects only you. this is similar to blind, but it impacts only one guy, multiple passivesto control
  • curse - ambiguous, but ostensibly one person
  • degeneration - one person, one time counter, multiple passives to control
  • impeded - one person, one time counter, multiple passives to control
  • possession - one person, one time counter, multiple passives to control
  • rage - one person, once a round counter. there is a power or two I think as well
  • shroud - condition is on one person, but affects everyone, effectively infinite range. problem here is that everyone has to pay by RAW. It implies that you have to pay every round in the description. one passive to count
  • taunt - everyone, starts at 4 hexes (ranged weapons are outside this). at max intensity, ranged people have to be outside of 10 to avoid interaction. That is a pretty far distance. Then, you have to pay every round. On top of that, there is no cost reducer passive like Keen Senses.
  • vulnerable - one person, one time counter, multiple passives to control

As for his solutions, I like them, They are pretty similar to what I would propose (pointed it out, followed instruction, took inspiration from a brave colleague, etc).

Another option for taunt would be something along the lines of "if you attack anyone but the taunter, your attacks are Weak". This sidesteps the "I can't defend or move" question, but makes it much weaker. I'd leave the range and multiple targets at that point. Max intensity would be a double-weak (2 amp runes to overcome).

I might also propose that the Shroud Condition directly counters Taunt, similar to how charm counters possession. That way you can do things like Beckon Yggdrasil and move the taunter through the alka to remove his taunt. This is also supported by Shade of the Dark Mother, where you consume shroud and gain taunt. I think this also opens an interesting design space of for Shroud to be inflicted on others, or Taunt inflicted on others.

edit: in fact, this would make a very interesting role for the Sceadegungan if it's powers were altered to be less about applying shroud to one's self and more about applying shroud. A counter-maiden.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:20 am 
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I like the weak attack option for Taunt. "One eye on the taunting target" so not focused on your attacks.

And yes if a Taunted person suddenly gains shroud they become a rather less taunting individual.

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